03. The Purpose Of Lay Pastors

Welcome to track #3 of warnings of purpose. Doing in Switzerland at a point and even pain transport go, come, go, come. We don't do that. And that was an exception and we don't we don't do that anymore. Any person in Switzerland who doesn't want to go, at his own expression, kindly lay down his Bible and just be in the nearest church as an Asha or whatever work you can do there. You do it there. That's all. Yeah. Are you listening to me? So a lay pastor is somebody who is not paid transportation. And I want to say that even one day if I'm not around, I will tell you a sign of the corruption of this church is when lay pastors are paid even the smallest amount of money. You just mark it if you, if I die before you, remember if you are still in the church that I told you this particular sign, that it is the sign that the church is going off course, that lay pastors are paid, giving transport, any form of money or whatever for the work that they do. Because the essence of being a lay pastor is that you are volunteering your help that the church has not got the need to pay for, which other churches are trying to emulate and others are trying to learn that example. And also to ensure that full time ministry is kept pure as really something that you want to do, not for money. So just remember, because that is the very thing that will it actually take us, that it's no more a lay, no more a lay pastor. Where was I? When I met somebody and I was asking the person, ah, I was somewhere, I was in a shop and I asked who are all these people? And they said all these are volunteers. So I said, how much do you give? I mean, I, I thought I knew that it was actually a trick question to find out whether they were really volunteers because you people don't understand the same volunteers. Can you imagine what we just give this one this, we give this one this we give this one this we give this one this, we give this one for transport for this, for travel like that. When you add it all together. And I said the I'm, I'm used to the people who even worked for me. And I said that person, his salary is less than the amount that you you are giving this volunteer. And then I also pointed out and I said that it is even illegal because all these people are actually employees. Like they are not declaring them as employees. Apart from anything else, it's also illegal. And you don't pay tax, you don't pay Social Security and whatever it is, because they are you in your mind, they are volunteers, but you are just giving them this for transportation. Do you understand? So I'm just, I'm just explaining to you so that you will have a certain understanding of what is a lay person or what a volunteer is. Are you with me 'cause it is very, very important. It's very important for you to know the difference. Amen. A volunteer is a person who performs a service willingly and without pay. This is according to the dictionary. He performs a service willingly and without pay. These are two important characteristics. Yes, he performs a service willingly. And that is why after we've appointed pastors as lay pastors and then it looks like we are dragging them around and they don't really want to do it, then it's better that they don't do because I volunteer. So no, I've come. I want to volunteer to help with that. You don't have to pay me. I'm I'll do everything. Then I said no, but you know, you need to give me this another. I'm not my volunteer. You know, you are an employee. So it's either this or that. You can't have your cake and eat it. Do you understand why you're saying you can't have your cake? Somebody brings cake. Now you want to have that cake sitting there at the same time you want to eat the cake. There are two options. If you eat it, it will not be there. It will not more be on the plate, it will not be standing because it's in your stomach. So that's what it means that you can't have your cake and at the same time eat it. If you eat it, you will not have it on the plate or in the in the house. It will not be in the house again because it is in your stomach. You can have your cake and eat it. Choose what you want and anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway, if you don't believe in this idea, please go to another church. This is the main advice. I can go to God in this church. This is how we are doing things here. This is what has this, what has worked and what we are seeing that is better. In fact, we tried different mixtures and so on and we have found that it is not a good thing. You're either coming this way or you're going this way. You look at the full time ministry in many other places, it's all fighting about money, about caste, about what this person will get, what that person will get. That's why I say look, if you want to give yourself to the ministry, come, give yourself. Don't, don't say that. Mix it up with a financial. You are not sure whether it's a financial move or what. It's true. If you are midlife, you are having midlife crisis in the midlife crisis is around the age of 1436 to 46, you know, and you begin to reassess yourself, your life goal, what you have achieved, whether you have achieved it, what you should have done, whether you prospered in what you were doing. You begin to reassess it. And during that time, people take all sorts of strange decisions because you look and realize that, hey, it's finishing and and where am I? Where, where, where? What have I got for all that I've done? If you are having midlife crisis, don't bring it on the church. It means to do something on one's own volition, to enlist, to offer services, to put at one's disposal, to stand up, to step forward, to submit oneself, to take the initiative, to take upon oneself the job. That's what it means. You understand. So what we are saying is that when you started as a lay pastor, your eyes were not on money. And it's surprising that in our church rather and rather having to deal with lay pastors on such issues rather than leaving full time pastors, you know how much full time pastors are paid. You should ask them how much they are paid. They didn't listen to some of the camps where some of the people were interviewed and they they said how much they were paid or find out how much people are paid in the full time ministry. You don't know what people have done to be in the ministry. If you are not prepared to do it, don't try to figure things out in another way. But we will smash you. We will smash you if you watch some films to see how you will be smashed. Purpose of Lay pastors #1 It is the purpose of lay pastors is for all pastors, whether lay pastors or full time pastors, to end for themselves a grade of dignity and wholesome influence in the church. You just write down where we speak a grade of dignity and influence in the church. You're going to get some amount of dignity and influence in the church. First Timothy chapter 3 verse 13 says they that have used the office of a Deacon purchase to themselves a good degree, which is a Greek word bathmos, which means a grade of influence and dignity, Amen. Grade of influence and dignity Amen. Are you there? And it comes from the word Bathmos, a grade of dignity and wholesome influence. Bath MOSBATHMOS. Whenever you work for the Lord, you end for yourself. A grade of dignity. And the idea of full time pastors is lay pastors is that all pastors, not just full time pastors for every pastor will earn a good degree. Whether you are paid or you are not paid, whether you are the calling for full time or you don't have the call, everybody will get a degree because that was the day that I've used the office of a Deacon get for themselves a good degree. It is the day that are paid by the church. Those that have used the office of a Deacon or the of a Deacon, diaconous helper, servant, if you work well in that office, you will. You will unless the Bible is not true, you will get a good degree. You will get it. You will get it whether you were paid or you were not paid, you will get a good degree. And our aim is that everybody who says I believe God has called me, whether you are, you are supposed to die or not to die, you get a good degree. And that is the offer that to me I'm seeing it as a spiritual thing that I'm giving you an opportunity to have. If you have seen it differently, then your purpose is different from my purpose. And that's why I'm explaining to you the purpose of making a lay pasta is to help you to get a good degree. Now, you have not seen it that way. That is why the wardrobe is not going downstairs after one hour. It's not going downstairs. When I push, you pull. When I pull, you push and it's falling on our toes and we are screaming. So we seem to be doing something totally different. I thought that you said that God had called you only that due to certain things you are not able to do it all. All so great, no problem. Most people will not be able to. So I'm giving you the opportunity to have a good degree. What a bad thing have I done to you. That is their spiritual purpose, to give you that opportunity #2 the purpose for labour. I'm giving you the spiritualities and spiritual purposes is to let them to allow them to do good and to be rich in good works so that they have a good foundation for eternity. To allow them to do good and to be rich in good works is to be rich in good works so that they have a foundation for eternity. When Major Mephel died, I stood at his funeral and gave a tribute to his good works that he did in the church, because he did some good works in the church, did he not? He did so. These are the things the Bible says in first Timothy 6 verse 17. Charge them that are rich in this world, that they should not be high minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God who giveth us richly all things to enjoy. That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come. That they may hold on or held on to eternal life. Charge them those that have money. It's a money vest. That it's also telling you that the people should be rich, that they should do good and be rich in good wealth so that they will have a good foundation against the time to come and they will lay hold on eternal life. It's like you see somebody learning something and Islam is coming later. So he's laying a foundation for that time, which is to come. One day all of us will be dead and you will be glad that you had an opportunity. And you wait and see. When you die, you see that there is nothing that can be said about you even. I mean, was that at the funeral recently? Was that at any funeral recently? What funeral was that? OK, I thought I had been at the funeral recently. But you see when at the funeral say sometimes they will be passing through the pages. You say you've gone here. You've done. There's no time. In many places. They buried 6 coffins at a time. 54 When Pastor Joe's father died. How many were they? 4 coffins in one day. They don't have time to be ready. Say you were here. You did. No. No, No, No. No. So many of us. We cannot. We cannot say what you have done. How can we say We see one hymn for you. And then once you work at PWD, you went here. You did this. No, No, no, no. And, and cast your mind back. You know, you, you need to sometimes watch funerals. On my DVD collection, I have a number of funerals that I, I, I watch Kenneth Higgins funeral or a Robert's funeral, Bishop Partisan's funeral. I watch them. I get a lot of education as I watch when people are talking this, that, that it teaches me so much. You should watch some funerals. You, you will learn a lot. I thought you look and say hey, and you, you realize that when you die, there is nothing about you. You stand up if you are deaf. You see that even your school. We don't know your school, but we know your church. We know anything spiritual that you live and say you went to this school where you where? I don't know. I don't know anything about all that you have. How many children you have? I don't know. But your your works. That's the foundation for a time that is coming. I'm telling you, you may not, you may not. And you see that it was the greatest privilege I gave to lay pastor, somebody whose real work is not pastoral work. By giving you the chance to be a volunteer, to offer your services and have a degree. You should be thanking me every day, not insulting me and asking me that your Ty, your carburetor is getting spot, the mileage on your tyres, the mileage on your car. You are writing to me that you want a percentage of the offering. About four, six passes wrote to me that they want a percentage after we are paid rent. They want a percentage in Switzerland. Switzerland, fastest Zurichai mostly uneducated fellows who can understand the preaching that we are preaching about. And most of the rebellious people are not educated. I mean secular formal education. And most rebellious people who do kuditas, overthrow and so on do mutinies and those kind of things. They are low ranking offices by this and I mean people without the latitude of the scope of thinking. They they don't have that wideness of thought. I'm not talking about I'm not talking about the chance even in in secular when, when you are, when you are overthrowing, when you are overthrowing the head of state, you are killing him and so on. Your swing, your top swing is narrow. You don't understand. Yes, latitude and swing is not wide. Your mind cannot reason to that extent of what you are doing. That's why you you should watch. There is a film that I would recommend that in what is called The Mute, the Bounty, Mutiny on the Bounty. It's a true story that happened and the people gang up and threw the captain out. They threw the captain out and when he was going he asked the guy who was training. I said can you lead these people? Do you understand what you have done? And do you understand what is happening If you are a landscaper, you get up, you execute president news president this president and so do you understand what it means and who are you going to command? Now the main doesn't just why we no go say that? Why should we? Why should we work in a shopping mall that we also cannot afford to shop in? Why should we work in a hospital that we cannot afford to be admitted in? Why should we work in a hotel that we can never afford to sleep in? So why? It's not? Why? That's not why? Why should we do that? We cannot have that. We not go sit down and make them do that. Why should I work in a shop? I cannot buy anything in that shop. Why should I work in the hospital, secure that I cannot afford to be sick in that hospital? Why then we not go sit down? Let them do this to us again. I should not work in a hotel like this. I cannot afford to sleep in this hotel and I work here, there now. It's not right, I said. It's not right. You see, your mind is not deep. It's small like this. It cannot swing. Why should I? Why should I be in a church and preach and take offering and then I cannot eat some of that offering? It's the same kind of thinking, Why should I come to church and fee for my own fuel to come to church? It's because your mind does not understand. That is why you see that people who have volunteers, there's a self accepting mentality and that's why maybe some of you, we made a mistake to make you a pastor, but we didn't know that you were so lonely in in your depth of understanding was so shallow that we made that mistake of making you a pastor. Why should I work in the hospital that I cannot afford to be sick in that hospital? Why? Look at? Look at what you are, Look at the question that you are asking. Look at the question that you are asking and you want to use these type of questions to lead people to follow you. When I had a mind to give you a good foundation for the time to come, that was not your mind. It's not your mind. Yeah, that was not your mind. I thought that I was giving you because other than that, I would have rather kept all the members at a particular location. I'm not going to start another check somewhere else. We have depleted our attendances at different places to start branches at different and give somebody like you an opportunity to preach. Now you are starting there asking that why should you work in a church and preach the word of God? You shouldn't collect that offering to the house. Why should I work in a hospital that I cannot afford to be sick in that hospital on admission there. You are a fool, that's why. That's why you are a damn fool. That is the reason why you cannot be on admission there. You better go to the polyclinic. You can never be on admission there. Get to the right now. Why should I work in the hotel? I cannot sleep in champagne. Champagne. Why should I work in the kitchen and be cutting food? I cannot eat stuff. That's not right. That's not right my my friend the rags. The rags are taking over the nation, they are taking over the hospitals, they are taking over the the shopping centre, they are taking over everything because they say why should we work there when we cannot be there. I had a friend who had a restaurant and the people in the restaurant said why should we work here when we cannot? So every day they would take chicken, the frozen one, and they threw it over the wall. After closing, they go round the wall, they pick it and they go home. Then they put eggs, they put it inside, inside the pants. And so when they are going home, you see that walking like this, You see that walking like this, Why should I work in the kitchen? I cannot eat the egg. Why should I work in the kitchen? I cannot take the egg to the house. It's because you are. You are What a fool. A fool. You put X in the pants, OK, Sit down, sit down, sit down. Look, we have a lot of things to do, so #3 the purpose of lay pastors is to allow many who are called many are called many. I know that not just three people are called, many are called many are called. Many of us here are called, Amen. So the purpose of lay pastors is to allow the many who are called to bear fruit. Amen. John 15 verse 16, it says You have not chosen me, that I have chosen you, that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain. Amen. Why? Because this best that applies to everybody who prays all the prayers in John 15. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask what you will, it shall be done unto you. Why don't you ask what you will? John 15716 I chose you. I ordained all those Scriptures. It's for people who pray and people who are Christians. You are also chosen and you are ordained. I know before you are ordained by a man, you are ordained by God. Before you are chosen by a man, you are chosen by God. I know it, and that is why I ordained people. We ordained people during ISI pastors who are not in our church. Other people, we are always trying to say I do you can have opportunity to do something, preach anyone. Can I help you in any way, Not only our church. I've been trying. So when we do that and then now you are turning it into something else. We should have kept our members. There is a pastor. I was talking to him one time. He has a big church in in, in the UK. And he said to me, look, we were at an old church all right, And I had a pastor. I had beautiful chess members. God bless us with a new building. I was standing in the building when he was showing me the building and he said I decided to move to the new building. But I realized that so many of the people were used to the old building. So he said I decided to give my associate who had been with me for so many years and said you stay at the old place while I move and redevelop, this are the new premises that we have. So he did that and he said to me, he said for branches me never, no way. He said what I have seen. He said after some time, this associate whom he was given the opportunity to be a headbuster. You see, that's why when you see the cinepa talking in a way they can easily kiss you easily, easily Before I realized you can be something will be said that will be you wither. And he said, I love that he told me. He said the families, most of the mature families and the members who had been our members for years, personal knew them for years. I left them all at the old place and the guy spoke to them one by one, one by one, one by one and took them all away. And before he realized he lost the whole church to this associate. So he said branches for me. So I'm staying here with my one big church because his church is big, because an elephant, when he loses weight, it is still a very big, bigger than a fox or a dog. Even when it has diarrhea, you see that it is big. Yeah. Even when it loses weight, you see that it is bigger than a dog. Even when it has Brownian stomach, you see that it is big. He said, I will not. And you ask yourself, why should you, where should we start a branch here in America or here in Switzerland or here, here, where those people would have even come? They would have come. And we've started giving you an opportunity to what? To bear fruit, to have a good degree, to prepare a good foundation for your eternal appearance, which is coming that one. Rather you are telling then you forgot. You see, that is why we are talking about warnings, to remember the purpose for the thing. That's why I'm on the purpose of lay pastors. Why did we make lay pastors for people who also have a good foundation for him? We all stand together and I'll call my daughter Anushka. I'll call my lay pastor. We are here. I will tell the lawyer. He has helped me since we started. At the beginning, he was sleeping in the same room with me. He has helped me. You may be surprised at his reward. We didn't be more than mine. You don't know. I hope not, but you never know. For eternity. Eternity. This is a wonderful thing. Yeah, but I'm saying what I'm saying is that if Doctor Nosh is dead today and I'm preaching at his funeral, it is not whether I ate his Stew. He ate my Stew when we were in the class. It's not about whose Stew when we were roommates. Do you understand what I'm talking about? Yeah. It is the work that he has done and the help that he was. When we were coming to America, I didn't know anybody. He was the only person that I knew. And somebody called him and told him, don't allow this. Bishop. Bishop Dan, I don't know what the answer. Bishop. He said he's going to. He's just going to use you. Is that how they talk? Yeah. But all that I can talk about all that I can. I don't have to read this. I don't have to read something to make a tribute about, about him. I don't have to read, read it out. Do you understand? And, and my prayer is that even if I went into this thing full time from 1989 or whenever and he went on another route, he will still have a good foundation when he stands there. He's not going to stand on something shaky. And we don't know how it will be. And the final, That is the purpose. But that purpose has been forgotten by a lot of people. You've forgotten the reason why lay Passes was introduced. It's not about dissipating members in London. We would have kept all the people at the at first. Yeah. London is not a plane. We take you. We cross from here to here, here to here. It's not someone who said that you should be. Why do you say you'll be here? You'll be here is to give everybody something opportunity. I thought that was the whole idea. Boss, you keep your way. I'm happy to that number 34. The purpose of lay pastors is to accommodate different measures and levels of giftings. Amen. Different levels, measures of gifts. Babel says the Kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling, he gave to 15 talents, to another one to another two. Amen. So to accommodate different levels. So maybe God may have given me 1000 church, but he has only given you one little church and that one little church does not require you to leave your job. So to accommodate somebody like you with your level, maybe your level is level 2.8 and I have got a gift of level 7.9 and 7.9 needs not only to do it full time, but even need some people to also be full time to help him. But level 2.3 you don't even need to be doing it full time. So to accommodate your level, because God didn't give everybody the same level of gift. I didn't say it, He said it 1 he gave 51, he gave 21, he gave one. And the Bible says unto everyone of us is giving grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ that is in him. Amen. Ephesians, after four, everybody has been given a measure. So your measure may not require even that you should step out of your job for even one minute. But the fact that you've been given only one talent does not mean that you should not bear fruit. I, as a good household holder, have to give you the opportunity to use your one talent. If I've given you the opportunity to use your one talent, is this something that you want to turn against me? All that I I should get from you is gratitude. Gratitude till you die. And when you are dead, one day you will be very glad. Or when you are struck with an incurable disease, you will always be glad for me that I gave you that opportunity and had a church in which somebody like you, with your characteristics and your abilities was given an opportunity. I mean, look at the gift that God has given me today. I'm doing everything that God has anointed me to do. I've been, I've been doing it. And it goes to a certain level, a certain high level, that I actually need people that work for me, for me to be able to do what I'm doing. Yeah, but it was not always like that. And I know that not everybody has that gift. Administration, leadership, management, finances, different things apart from what is it. And all those things are in the Bible. They are all different gifts and abilities. But you see, not everybody has. I know that not everybody has that. So you with your small ones like, oh, Sankwas, get away. Oh, you, you are nobody. God has you. God, where is your anointing? That's what I could have told you. Why you go and concentrate on your work. Be Amassa in the church. Oh, like you, when you come to the church, you stay in your own order. When we come to the bank, we will give you respect. That's where you work. That's what I would have told you. I said go to your work and whatever. Here. This is what people were told. Oh, they were go back to work, go to your work or whatever. Yeah, I've given you the opportunity. So you don't realise what has been done for you and with you. Many place they're winning have called you pastor. They would have called you cell leader, even the cell leader. You'd have been a committee member or you'd have been nothing. But you see those of you who are saying in your head, oh, I would have been something. You are the rebellious people, sure, because you, you don't want to acknowledge what has been done to enable you to be where you are. That is why in your head you say that. I could say to ask Bishop Dan Kawila, you have done nothing for me. It is not true. I thought I could say, what has he done for? Did he train me in the ministry? He didn't train me. He never sat down and trained me when I called him for help to come and help, whatever. He'd rather send somebody to come and do an announcement for his church. The president came to do an announcement for his church. What has he done to help me? I can also talk in a way and minimize things and make things sound absent. But you see that is an ungrateful person because there are many things that he has done for me, even just existing and many prayers and many, many things I can go into. But it is an ungrateful person who has mentality works in a way that to reduce everything to absurdity. What have what have you done for me? What have you done for me? What is it again I have done and this and So what? What I mean what I was in your church and so I was in other churches. I also went to Calvary Baptist Church. I went to Rich Church, I went to this church. What have you done for me? Do you ever do this for me? Do you ever make me a leader? I can't talk in a way that is the sign of a rebellious person who is ungrateful. For what? For us, given the prayers and the things and the presence and the words. You can hear those words all through my preaching. You can hear the sound of the voice of person and things that he has said and directed and done in the Spirit even. Your wickedness and rebelliousness, I will not want to acknowledge what somebody has has done for you, no matter how tiny it is. You now have been a cell and then your head. Your head is good. I would have been a cell leader. Is that person not some way? Now, how many agree with me that the person is really really, really, really, really subway #5? The purpose of lay pastors is to accommodate different levels of sacrifice. Different levels of sacrifice What are different levels of sacrifice? Listen, I will not even tell you where it is. If a soul sing and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he has seen or known of it, if he do not attire it, then he shall bear his iniquity. Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, he shall also be unclean. If he touch the uncleanness of a man, he shall be guilty. Or if a soul swear pronouncing with his lips to do evil or to do good, he shall be guilty. And it shall be listen, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he has sinned in that thing. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, for for his sin which he had sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb, or a kid of the goats for a sin offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him. Amen. Are you with me? But if he is not able to bring a lamb, then he shall bring for his trespass, which he has committed, 2 turtle doves and two young pigeons. If he is not able to bring the lamb, he should bring pigeons, and he shall bring them unto the priests, and he shall sprinkle the blood of the same offering. Now if he is also not able to bring 2 turtle dabs or two young pigeons, then he that sin shall bring for his offering the 10th part of an effort of fine flour. Now for a sin offering, he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense on it, for it is a sin offering different levels of sacrifice. Somebody is prepared to give up his whole life. When Bishopsaki was coming into ministry, he did not even want to earn one month's salary as a lawyer. He said whatever it is that I will earn, even one month is OK. I don't like it. I want to work for the law. You want to earn 10 years of lawyer's salary before you come. If you will come, you are prepared to give less. It's also accepted now you say you don't want to give 10 years, you want to give retirement from 65 onwards. Sunflower you 2, you 2 are what accepted. You are also accepted and all of us will sit in the same room. That's why we put that color. You people should appreciate that color now of the nation. I'm telling appreciate it. We have not distinct because we know we will stand before God and there are some late pastors who are doing better than full time pastors. If your sacrifice is at this level, so many sacrifices at this level, so many sacrifices at this, all of us can have a place. That is what the name ministry is doing and has done for us. Yes, accommodate the different levels. I never worked as a doctor. The potential that I could have earned. I said it's OK, it's OK, I'll go now. Doctor Joe, he did not care. Stand up, stand up. He he, he could not have it initially. He couldn't. Does it mean Satan? Does it mean he's not a pasta? Does it mean he's not a cough? Does it mean should he have something to do? He doesn't mean any of those things. If he cannot do that at the beginning, he cannot give a lamb. So he's dead. Oh, there's option for turtle dabs and pigeons. There's an option for turtle dabs and pigeons. Yeah. And I know. I know it. Why not? If somebody say it's OK, all the Salah is OK, I don't want even want. I will come today and somebody will say I want to go for some time. Not even he never even know what, but at a point he would. You may even say that I don't like it. Again. He wanted to go to London so badly. He wanted to specialize. Can you blame me for wanting to specialize? It's natural. And I also would have loved to specialize. I had so many areas I would have loved to. But it's OK with the specialization. No problem. And that's it. I'm able to give the alarm. Now somebody come and when he says I don't give up my home medical career also, so OK. Therefore, go to help. If you don't have patience, you will not have a lot of children. A person who has patience has a lot of children. You can write it down and remember, if you have patience, you have sometimes you ask us, how do you get all these people? How come you get all these people out with you? Patience and forgiveness. You have plenty children, different variations of children, I'm telling you. So look at Pastor Joe. He went, he left us. We begged him in a meeting not to go. Where you at that meeting? I was there. I was there with the university students. When I meet, I remember we begged him. We said please don't go. You see these people. He was the shepherd. He was a pastor of the he was a pastor of the youth and he was very good, very, very good. So I was and the people were saying that. People are saying that you see as you are going, we don't have anybody like you to really help us. That's what they told me. I was personally in the meeting. I was in the meeting. So I remember very well. I told look what you are doing, what you are doing. These people, I don't know what is going to happen because we are all, I mean, I was doing something else in Mataico. He was also in Calabu. I said these guys would really be, I mean, left without the shepherd. He said, no, it's not. Bishop really believes in me. He believes in what I'm doing. And he gave me a sign that Bishop has done this for me. Because of this, it means Bishop approves my going what is this time? Oh, so it was a it was a blessing. Then I told him that. Then it means that I gave him, yes, you gave him some money and you bought the ticket and gave him some money to go. I bought the ticket. You helped him to go. Then I told that. Then it means that you don't know Bishop, because I know that I said Bishop can drive you to the airport and not be happy with you. Bishop can actually fly the plane. Am I lying, Doctor Joe? I told you, I said Bishop can drive you to the airport and not be happy with you if you don't understand your father. So he came later on with a tattoo dove. He came to me in London after he had come and started his program. Then he came one day and he said I am not interested in medicine again and I said and he said now I didn't believe him because it takes time to believe. So I took time to believe for after some time I realized that he was serious and he said OK. I said OK fine. So if he's been able to come that he didn't come at the day one but he can come at day 250. Then we got 1800 days and you've come at 2:50. Why not? Oh, you came at 1200 and we have 1800. Why not? So that's what I'm explaining, that without the lay ministry, we will have only those who have, who have lambs. Only lambs. The rest of you, the rest of you go to hell. The rest of you just be there. You never have a chance. And everybody is even understanding the word differently, in a different way. Everybody takes his own, his own way. Amen. Are you still understanding what I'm saying, Doctor? Go here. It's an example. Look, one day we came for a crusade right here, right here. And I went to my room and I said I was talking with him in the night behind the And what did I tell you? He said to me, Doctor, go, I have a strong feeling that you don't appreciate your salvation, He said. It was a past arrival. And when I stand on stage, you're having a miracle, he introduced. That's what I thought. I said to me, you don't appreciate your salvation to me. That is my opinion. It really struck me because I thought I was, I was, I mean I was a pastor and I felt I appreciated my salvation. But now when I look at it, you were very right. I thought I was alone because even though he was trying to work for God in the quasi way, do you understand? It was, it was there was something lacking. It's true. And you can see I said, because I remember also at another crusade, this time in Takradi, we went and we after, after, after preaching, we went to a disco outside in the garden. We sat in the garden of a disco that he used to attend as a child and we, we you know Santa, when we finish preaching you are very tired. So to even get up and move. So we were there till about 4:00 AM, all the team that were there. So about 4:00 AM we got up to go and when we got to the door of the disco what did you see? That we saw this. They have cast a smallish man with some some 2 girlfriends. They had just come out of the door. He was wearing a singlet type of with chains around him, chains and muscles. He had a lot of muscles. Then I told you that this played this time and this door, if it had not been for the Lord, I would have also been coming out of this door at the same time and and that would have been my fault in the series for the night. 4th what? 4th attendance, My 4th disco attendance. My 4th disco at around 4:00. Normally we end around 5:30. So that's what I'm looking at. Somebody said, do you appreciate your salvation? Because when I look at the guy, I didn't know even how to witness to him. He looked so hot. Do you remember that guy? He was there. Yeah, Yeah. So how do you even approach the perfect Christ? God died for you. Jesus died on the cross. If you receive him this evening, you will be a city. Sounds absurd. And you look at somebody like you. You were there. Now today you are dignified. This man, God has done something for you and and still you don't want to give your life to him. So I say you don't appreciate your salvation. But if somebody appreciated with a lamb, somebody appreciate it with a petal dial, somebody appreciate it with whatever, you accept it. Even when you receive offerings, sometimes people have gift offerings. You can see the level of appreciation from the offering they give. It's true. Somebody, there are people, somebody doesn't have much money, The person will come and offload a whole lot of money or whatever on you. You know the person doesn't have money and somebody who has a lot of money will come and give you some peanuts. You know, you can see someone. Oh, that is the thought. Then it's a bad thought. You have bad thought. If it's just the thought, then it's a bad thought. But as a pastor, you learn to appreciate the different levels of appreciation. Some of you when you have Galatians 6/6 and they don't appreciate when you are disappointed, that's how that's how you are. Also. It is being done to you. How you are is how it is being done to you. Messi So God is blessed us with a powerful ministry. Whatever your level of sacrifice that you will sit, we will sit together. I will not make a distinction between I will sit with you at the same rank. I'm telling you, we will all be together if only you if you appreciate as much as I appreciate, I will, I will make you reverend. We all wear we wear the same chain. We wear the the cross, everything together. I will not, I will not introduce this. So this is a volunteer. No, no, no, this is a volunteer. We are reverend. These are just, I mean some no, we reverend. This reverend. It is when they ask a question that they may even find out that you work as state insurance. They will never know that you are working as state insurance. OK, so you are blessed. Number six, the purpose of lay pastors is to accommodate the different times and seasons at which people, different people respond to their callings. The purpose of a lay pastor is what to accommodate the different times and seasons at which people, different people, respond to their calling. Amen. For the Kingdom of heaven is like unto a man. That is a householder which went out early to hire laborers into his vineyard. When he had agreed with the laborers for a penny in Matthew 2021 to seven, he sent them into his vineyard. He went about at the third hour. In short, understanding idol in the marketplace, he said, Go also to the vineyard, whatever is right, I will give you. They went their way. And again he went about the 6th and the 9th hour, and did likewise. And about the 11th hour he went out and found out other standing idol. And he said, Why do you stand here all day, idol? And they said unto him, Because no man has hired us. And he said unto them, Go ye to the vineyard, whatever is right, you shall receive. Amen. So when even was come, the Lord of the vineyard said, until his servant, call the laborers and give them their hire, beginning from the 1st until the last. Amen. Same calling, same work, same vineyard. This man responded at 9:00. This man responded at 2:00. This man responded at 7:00. Because of not yet 11 of midnight. And when this man said yes, I my God, to say no when you have responded at 7:00 in your life. No, not me that my colleague is to encourage people to come and wait for the law. And I know there are different clocks. You see, there is a clock in you. Everybody has a clock. You didn't know that there's a clock in you. Have you ever wondered why your period comes at a particular time? How does it count 28 days? How is it able to count exactly 28 days? How does it know this time for your period to start? And how does it know that it's time stop? There's a clock in everybody. There is a timing device within you. Timing things within you. Some people period come every 28 days, some come 22 days, 21 days, some come 33 days, 32 days. Some it doesn't come for two months, then it comes. Everybody has a different clock. Should I say you are not a woman because your clock is 32 days and somebody's clock came at 2221 days and I say you are not a woman? Huh. Shall I distinguish all those 28 days on the right? 23 days, 22/21/14 days. Thousand people have every two weeks. So I don't know how your clock is breaking, Abby. Maybe, maybe I preach you don't hear. But one day you. I preach. You hear and you say, you say, but I'll say, but I'll preach. It's a Bishop. No. You know something I realized? Why not? I I can understand because you have women, they stop having their period at the age of 4039. Some will be going 53. Some will give birth. 55. Yeah, it gives birth. It depends. So everybody has these different responses to the same thing. Are you understanding what I'm talking about? So should I say no to Bishop then? I wouldn't have had a Bishop. Bishop in temple, I wouldn't have had. I wouldn't have had him. Do you not know that there are people who have been in full time ministry before him, like I mentioned, who are not bishops like Pastor Johnny, Pastor Oku, They've been in the full time ministry. Before he came into full time, he was building his hospital. He had about 21 employees. He was he was a career man. Do you understand? But when the clock turned click and he came to me and he came and said, oh, he's selling his hospital. He went and did an estimate for the hospital that quantities are to see the cost of operating table, cost of things, cost of operating light, cost of ultrasound, every machine he made. So when he came, I said, let us pray. We pray God will help you to sell it. But after some years, nobody was dying. So I said, look, they say you have to dash it if you really want to, if you really want to beg for God. Yeah, he was not prepared. You see, everything even becomes useless sometimes you are not prepared at that time. But a time came, he himself said this thing. It's almost like a case that I have to get rid of. So that when he was ready, if I have said no you and I said you when you were doing your housemanship, was I also not doing my housemanship around that same time after you did yours after and I met you in Kolibu. Since Kolibu, do you not see me working for God? When you saw me working for did you, did you know OK to you what is important to God? I'm not saying you a question. I'm not answering a question. When you saw me working for God, did you know OK to you what is important in the world? Is it today as an elderly man, you are now coming to say that you want to to work for God or you think I couldn't have said that when we were working for God all these years. I met you after you sat in the canteen. We were in the canteen when you started to introduce your name is Lawrence Interfol or Emmanuel Interfol. And you, you have come from Russia. And so when you were in Russia, I used to preach this, this, this, this, this, and now you say that. Now as an elderly middle-aged man, you are now saying God has called you all these years. He didn't call you when you saw us giving ourselves to the minutes, didn't care to you, what are the right things to do? Is it now that you are coming? No, I didn't say that. I said praise God, I cannot, I'm nothing. If you want to, fine. I recognize, I recognize and accept and honor the different timings that and you flow with it. If you marry a woman, she her period is 28 days, you flow with that time. If she dies, you marry another one. The clock is every 14 days. You have to accept it. Every 14 days break time break for music. Every 14 days break for music. If you are not patient, your children will be few. Can you hear me? I said. If you are not patient, your children will be few, your members will be few, everybody with you will be few, your helpers will be few, your people will be few. But if you have longitude to accommodate and understand, that is what sometimes when people are not educated, they don't understand. They don't understand why should this person end this? Why should he have? Why should I work in the hospital I cannot afford to be admitted in? So wait, Oh, you don't understand what I'm saying? If I didn't have patience, I wouldn't have Pastor Joel. Since, look, since I was born and since I became a Christian, nobody has told me what he told me. Yeah, when I was talking to him about that. Nobody has ever told me that I am allergic. Allergic to this thing that you are saying I have become allergic to it. Nobody has ever told me. But I accepted it. I accepted that. Accepted it. When the time came that he came to rather say that he now wants to do the work and he wants to learn that he's no more having those. Whatever. I didn't bring that word. I kept that word in my when I was writing Lay People and then I wrote it in it. I didn't say to him, I just wrote it in the book. I didn't say anything. I said oh you are welcome. I could have asked him that. Have you been to see the doctor? Have you been cured of that allergy? Which until histamines, have you been taken to cure you of that allergy? I would have asked. Have you forgotten when you told me that you were allergic? You forgotten when we were what? What's the name of that tube station? London Bridge, Tube station? I followed him like a dog just from tube station to tube station, just to talk to him. We are going from here to here underground. Who is just walking on the bed as I was like, I'm irritating somebody. I'm not joking. When I'm joking, I will tell you that I'm joking. What's following? It's like a following. It's like a man who has seen a woman is who's who's, who's who's. Hey, if you don't have faces, your children will get finished. You will be executing them one by one as you firing squad. You out, you out, you out, out, finish. It's true. So we are accommodating different timings. Maybe your time hasn't come yet, maybe that you want to do whatever or I don't know what I'm going to still. You still even need to be a form of training as you're working as a layperson. You get so much exposure training, ministry officiating. You know, I haven't told the people that you volunteer. I've just said you reverend, do what we are going to do. Ordination. Oh, no, Sir. These are volunteer reverend. We all, the volunteer reverend come for us. We are volunteer reverend come. They are not a real reverend. The real reverend are on the right and the volunteer reverend are. There's nothing like that. That is why you incur upon yourself cases when you misunderstand and you misappropriate all these nice things that are being done for you. I'm telling you. Paul said I thank Jesus Christ my Lord, who has enabled me for that. He has counted me faithful, putting me in the ministry who was before a blasphemer. So before he was a ministry was blaspheming. But there's been a change in the timing. Paul's time to become an apostle was different from Peter's time to become an apostle. So Paul was fooling around for a long time, but he came in at a point, and he came to really do more than the guys who have been there. Why should I not accommodate the pulse that are coming in after Thomasis and Abdes have come to perform? That's why, President, I told you you'll be a good missionary. Yeah, because maybe one day he'll come and you say, look, I'm ready to go to Congo. I'm going to Kisangani. But anytime I mention that topic to him, he just changes the subject, just changing the something. He will just start saying something, oh the first lady something, something and he will just change it. That's how he is. But I didn't said anything. I may write it in a book one day, that's all. But one day you will be surprised. The clock will start to change and say you know, something this and that, Why not? Why not? Bible says, and Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose name was Mark, But Paul thought it not good to take him with him, because he departed from them from Pamphilia, and went not with them to the work. Amen. But later on in Timothy he said, Take back and bring him with thee. Amen #7 The purpose of lay pastors is to allow them people to serve God without giving up their childhood dreams. Their childhood dreams. Yeah, childhood dreams. Yeah, you may not want to accept it, but all of us have childhood dreams. And you become What is your vision, Your vision for life. Because the Bible says without a vision, people perish. Your vision makes you become what you are. So you realize that you have a strong vision in your heart and a dream. I'm going to be this. I'm going to be that. There are several of you. When I see you, I know your childhood dreams. Some of you have childhood dreams to be doctors, like Doctor Antefo. He had his childhood dreams. Nothing could make him give it up. Yeah, some of other doctors and other you have, you have dreams. Some of you wanted to go abroad, like Pastor Joel, you wanted to go abroad. You know, you see, God is not against some of the some of the ideas. Maybe God put it in your heart. And some of you, your only dream is to be abroad. And now you are abroad. Do you understand what I'm saying? You are there now. But sometimes is it when a person seems to be robbed of his childhood dream, he rather becomes like somebody who has been cheated. And a person who feels cheated or that he has been deprived of something is a dangerous person to employ that person or to have that person around? I would not like to have somebody who feels robbed of his dream. Yeah, you shouldn't be robbed of your dream. A lot of you have been allowing you to fulfill your dreams. I'm waiting for you to say I've fulfilled it. It's true. Amen. I want to be this. I want to be a British citizen. I want to have this amount of money. I want to be secure. I want to be that. I want to be this. I want all those dreams. I've learned to be afraid of those kind of dreams. I also agree. There are things that I've had as a child. I would like to be this, I'd like to do this. I'd like to do certain things, but I've learned to give them to God because God's dream for me is more than my dream for myself. God's dream for me is more than my dream for myself. So when I can grow up and allow God, you dream and I follow your dream, then I'm going higher and and and and fine. You are blessed in your dream. I will pray for your dream. Like Doctor Go said, I will drive you to the airport. I will help you to fulfill that dream, literally, and I will never be against it. I'm a fool when I'm against you. I don't understand myself. It's a nation that doesn't understand that the wealth of the nation is the people that are in the country. When you cut them down, what do you have left? If I destroy you, I kiss you, I fight you, I fight your small prosperity. How much do you have? What will you even get when you use your whole life to follow this dream? Why should I be against it? Good idea. I must be out of my rocker. I am in favor of your dream. Amen. I want you to accomplish it. Can't you see sometimes when you listen to me preach about money and so on? Unfortunately, maybe I'm coming to that section instead of following, even as lay pastors should have followed more even the financial principles that are in this ministry. It would have made you prosper so much as a layperson, as you always felt that anything Bishop is saying is kill yourself and lose everything now. But when you listen carefully, you see all the keys to doing well are there as a layperson or any type of person. When we have a camp, even like the maturity camp we had last year, which has a lot of, it's not restricted. It's not restricted to only full time. You have all listened, many of you have listened to it. It's not restricted to anybody. It's just it's available if you, if you like it now that people don't want to follow. So your childhood dreams, Ekwa. Ekwa. I said your childhood dreams. Marriage, children. It's true, huh? What do you think? Money car someone. I want to buy the Benz. I must be in the BMW car. Deer and money German. I must have this. My child must go here. My I, some of you. Your dream is that your your children should speak like a British person. It's true. You may not know, but deep down it is within you. So if you want your children to speak like Americans, ma'am, Ma'am, I'm going out. Ma'am. Hi, Daddy. I'm. It's your. It's your childhood dream. You don't know. Some of your dream was to not not live in Ghana, isn't it? I'm asking you, is it not true? Is it not? Is it not true? Will you not only thank me that I have not deleted that dream? I'd rather pray for your dream and giving you on the side an opportunity. You'll be fulfilling your dream and you can also do something for the Lord on the side. You are now turning against me, what I have done for you. I don't think it's a nice thing. I don't think it's the right thing. No funny Amen. Hey sing for me come purpose of lay pasta. Oh let me give you the last point is to allow people to make as much money as they want and become wound they can become. Why? It is to allow people to choose to choose. You are being allowed to choose. That will never be taken from you, no matter who you are. OK, OK I need I need something to drink. Those of you who control such things Now Proverbs chapter 1 says for that they hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the Lord God. Proverbs one verse 28 God allows you to choose and he shows you the fear of the law. He shows you knowledge, He shows you foolishness. Choose that will never be taken away. So when you are relay faster you are being given an option to be a lay pastor. It's the choice and it will not be taken away. Even God has not taken away your door. I am much more HHH and we all have to respect if I choose marrying somebody. I don't expect your negative comments about my choice of what I am choosing to marry. It's my choice if you choose something and that is beautiful to you. If beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. There's more points I didn't see. My friend, you better start singing. Too busy to hear. How could you have known that I I had a problem on my own? Oh, did it seem seem to you that I just did not care? Burning that we've dropped to bed. Oh, but there's 11 who's always, always willing to help us out. And if she's us, my brother, just give him your cat. Oh we all need each other at a one time over another, but the one that we always need is the Lord. And we all need a helping hand of a sister of the brother of the world. We can always think. And the part is the Lord love him. Sister, tell me, where were you when I really needed someone to talk to about a fault of mine that I've carried around for so very long? I could not tell. I could not tell anybody because anybody, you see, anybody would understand all. And when I couldn't talk to you else all alone. Give me the strength to make it true up on this one. One pulls away. Pat it right here down here beside me. Oh and it's she's a loving sister. Just give him your castle. Oh, we all need each other at one time or another that we always need the Lord and we all need the help enhance of a sister of a brother, but we want we can always depend upon is the Lord. Yeah, we all need each other. I don't want time all the love of the world that we always need is the law and we all lead to help in time of the system of the brother of the world we can always depend upon in the life all we all. The way The thing is the Lord, and we all need a helping pass of this time of the problem of the world. We can always and the part is the Lord first. The Lord we can always, and the part is the. Lord of me, I want to. Operate with all of me. I wanna raise him. He has been so mighty, mighty good to me. All the bee, I want to break him, raise him, raise him with all the bee I want to break him. He's been so mighty, mighty good to me. He brought joy to my soul, joy to my soul, joy to my soul. He brought joy to my soul. If I joy, joy, joy to my soul. That's why I pray. And it's why I praise him. Sing with all of me, with all of thee. I want to praise him. Oh, praise him with all of me. I want to praise Him. He's been so mighty, mighty good to me. Or he brought joy to my soul, joy to my soul, joy to my soul. He brought joy to my soul. If I joy, joy to my soul. That's why I pray from the day I receiving that friend, he's been so good to me, so good to me. The Lord has been so good. I'm in his hatch from now until the end. So good to me, so good to me. Air be my joy to my soul, joy to my soul. Joy to my soul. Brought joy to my Sony brought joy. Joy to my soul. That's why I praise it. Oh, he my joy to my soul. Joy to my soul, joy to my soul. He brought joy to my soul. He wrote Joy, joy to my soul. That's why I'm crazy. Oh, yeah. I've got a reason to praise him. Oh, I've got a reason to praise him. Yes, I do. Oh, I've got a reason to praise him. Oh, if I try to. Oh Hebra, joy, joy to my soul can see me. Hebra joy. Oh Hebra joy, joy to my soul. The joy of the Lord is my dream. Hebra Joy, joy, joy, joy, Joy to my soul. Oh, you've seen it, You've seen it. Keep a joy. Joy to my soul. Keep a joy to my soul. Joy to my soul. He brought joy to my soul. He brought joy. Joy to my soul. That's why I pray. And so I'm crazy. I will praise it from the desert between. It's been wonderful to me. I will praise it. Yes, I will. I will praise it. The enemy on my heart. Ha ha ha. The enemy on my heart. Hallelujah. Oh, that's why I praise you. Are you glad that God allows you to choose? Not forcing. Can you imagine? You joined a church and you are told who to marry? You can marry this. Marry me this. Oh, it's free. Whether it's good or bad, you have it. Yeah. Fine or no fine. It's your choice. What do you think that is something God doesn't take away. There are some religions you have to be by force. They force the people to be. But Christianity we don't force. You can choose. Amen. And the last point, why? The purpose of lay pass is to prevent premature exposure to ministry. Amen, premature exposure. Amen premature exposure to ministry. Because some of you, if you, if you were to come into full time ministry at a certain point, you, you always blame the church for your state. But now look at you and who are you going to blame? You blame yourself, isn't it? Whether you did well or you didn't do well, you blame yourself. But if you have all been employees of the church, you'll be casting me day and night. So childhood dreams, fulfill it. Make as much money as you want to do whatever choose, have your own choice, and also be protected from premature exposure to something that you are not yet ready for. OK. Any questions before we go to the purpose of some other things? Question at the back. Yes, Bishop, I actually don't have a question, but a contribution. OK, I actually don't have a question, but a contribution. When he said to allow us the purpose of the lay ministry, to allow us to achieve our childhood dreams. I remember when I was in secondary school, my daddy wanted me to be a priest. He wanted me to go to Trinity College and I told him I won't go because the dream I had was to be ACEO of a company. But when I got to in secondary school, I happened to be in SU. And then I remember joining Lighthouse, and then I found an opportunity to still pursue my good dreams, childhood dreams, and also serve the Lord. So it's very, very true. I mean, for what you are saying, very true. What did you say? And his father's dream too, for you is also being fulfilled. Are you a CEO? I'm becoming. And it's also to allow you to become who you can become, isn't it? It's too great. So is it not just gratitude that should be giving back? Gratitude. That is what we should have. Amen. Yes, Sir. Bishop, I have a question. Point number six indicates to accommodate different times and seasons at which different people respond to the call. Yeah. How can we reconcile that with superannuation? OK, superannuation that we have introduced is something that is concerns the lay ministry. It's not, it's not a retirement form. You see, you will not retire from your job when you are 50. You understand you are not going to retire from your job, neither is a full time pastor going to retire from his job, a full time ministry because he's 50. Do you get it? So. That is a different thing and the supernovation in the lay ministry is not a retirement from ministry, you see, which is what you need to understand. But perhaps what all that we are going to do is we are just going to implement it this week and you yourself will see. That's how you see person. Oh yeah, me, I have been supernovated for the last eight years, but I rather I rather became a GOI am doing this, I am doing this, I am even. It's as simple as that. So it's not like a withdrawal, but also the reality that some laypasses are not really able to do the obligations that we expect for you to be at certain meetings to do certain they can't do it and they don't want to do it demands expected. So we just ask you to just be nicely. Yes, do you understand? So it's rather an honorable. So it doesn't it doesn't conflict. Where there could be a conflict would be if somebody is about 50 years old or much older and wants to come to be in full time ministry. That is where, you know, if the person is capable and the person is ready and the person wants to. I understand. An example is Pastor Tamba, who unfortunately is not here because he did not understand the superannuation. He rather thought that it meant that he's supposed to be here. So I called and said you should. What is that? But he rather is retired now and he rather wants to be in the ministry in full time. So even rather thinking of how to send him as a missionary. Yeah, I've rather been planning with him how he was back for the UN for so many years, how to send him to some places to go. Everywhere he has built churches, Yeah, everywhere he has built as a labour, physically built the churches. You see the church with the church building that he built, that's how he is. So he's the type of person that is even rather in the full real retirement age, but can rather refire into other things. As I said, if you are misunderstanding supernoisition where you don't really see, that's what I said, we just implemented so that you yourself will see that it's not anything that is meant to clip anybody's wings. Rather we are trying to work your best. Why? Rather, when you are experienced and you are matured, we not need you, rather that is when we need your input. Unless you are becoming an Orangu, becoming an Orangu, then say rather yes, we will respond to you. Have I answered your question? Yes, the second part of it is OK, Thank you. Great. Yes, Bishop, you gave examples of the link between education and disloyalty and quite, I mean the examples were quite, I mean, true, but I'm just thinking what I mean. If I like somebody's wife, I don't need to be a doctor or Carpenter. That thing should, it's natural that you should know that what you're doing is bad. It has got nothing to do with your education. And that that is the thing that I'm, it's like I'm thinking about that. I mean, a doctor would do the same. Carpenter would do the same. I mean, so you are thinking that whether he's educated or not educated, he may do the same thing. You know it's wrong. Yes. So it isn't. I don't know how how much the education affects your decision in being funny. Oh, I asked Bishop. So let me. He asked me. Don't answer. And he has a right to ask a question and a right to get an answer. Are you there? No, the question is whether really it is the case that when you are uneducated, it can affect your loyalty. Is that the question? Yeah. Because whether you are educated or not educated, you should know that it's wrong. Yes, But what I'm saying is that like there are some people who may more likely not that they will not understand what you are saying. For instance, like if you take like guns, a gun may more likely quarrel with you about something than, let's say, a fancy. Are you with me? But I'm not saying that because there are educated people equally who are very beastly. That is not the part. But what I'm I'm just showing you that there is a pattern. Sometimes you realize that they don't really understand the implications of what they are doing. Just like when you say that why should I work in a hotel that I can't afford to live in? That's not right. Why should I work in a hospital that I cannot afford to be sick? That is not right. Why should I work in a restaurant that I cannot afford to eat it? That's not right. You know, it's, it's very simple one step logic. It's not like that. Why should I wash a car that I cannot drive? That, that that is how people do politics. That's how politicians, you just stare up the emotions of the common man and then everybody is following you. But what I'm saying is that there is more to it. You see, when, when Gordon Brown was going out, he was, he said, he said to the people who were coming, he said that your policies are not well thought through. That was the last thing that he said today. Your policies are not well thought through. They have not thought through it fully. Yeah, I noticed that comment that he made as he was leaving for these young guys. He said that your policies are not well thought through, you see? Yeah. And you have been a Chancellor of the Exchequer for many years. He was telling you, you have not thought through it fully. What you are doing, when you think through the ramifications you see if for instance, you become an around, you will lose all your friends. Maybe you haven't thought about everybody that you flow with today you associate for years, your family, spiritual, everything will change because it will become yes, it will become difficult to even because everybody you have lived in and around the church. So now everybody because you are doing something that even not that we are your enemy, but you have made yourself such that it's difficult. It's like in Ghana, you are an NPP, somebody is NDC, you are all really have to campaign and you it's like the two guys who became Millibund, the the guys who were the Labour government in England, the Labour Party, two brothers stood for the Prime Minister position. So they have to campaign against each other. And if you don't take it, it is not that I'm your enemy. But in campaigning or having stood on these different platforms before, he realized, did it make us enemies? I was explaining to one guy who was leaving the church. He was my relative. I told him that, look, you don't understand what you are doing. It's my own relative. I said, this thing is going to it's not me. It's going to cause problems. You will see. And today it's like my enemy. That's how it is. It's like an enemy because in his church today I'm sitting my church members because you have started a church just by our church in Zurich. And obviously whenever there is any problem in this church, you say, let's go to this place who used to be our pastor for five years and you constantly create conflict. The other time I was speaking on my, I said remember that my church members are sitting in your church and I mentioned that and I said this person is your church, this person is in your church and this person is in your church. Do not forget that as you have their pastor. Half my people are in your church and I will not leave it like that. I will not leave that issue. No, you have taken the meat and left me with the food. Are you listening? So the point that I'm trying to make is that it's not that you want to when you think it to. That's what Gorin Brown said to the people, that and your policies are not well thought through. You need to think it through. What are you doing? It's going to have an effect that you don't understand. So when this guy was leaving, I told him if you want to go and be your own mother, fine. Don't do it here in Zurich. You have been a pastor of the church for five years. Don't do it here. When you do it here, it's going to cause all kinds of problems. You, I love you, I love you. I like you. You are my brother, You are my friend. You have been my pastor. I don't want to be your enemy. You see, people force us into positions as you are forcing us into an odd place. Can I come? Can I come and ordain you? Can I come and support? I cannot, as I support you and I do whatever. I'm supporting the breaking. But when I stand there and see my chest members sitting there, you may not have called them, but they are being called by your presence and your actions. But you see it takes a certain thinking through of what you are doing now, what you are doing. This is going to be the effect. People don't know some. We have had some pastors and sisters who have left and started churches. Some of them have closed down already, and it's because they have not thought what they are doing to us. The church is paying rent every month of 1000. Whatever. You have to find it yourself now and find a way of paying that then. But you haven't thought about it, what it is involving and the instruments and this and that and solving it. You haven't thought it through and that you have let the people based on a rebellion, which is not a long term thing. You cannot sustain somebody's anger or emotion for and while it will die down then it's like OK, now what do you also have to offer? Can you lead them? Is it is that thinking through? Sometimes we will not think it through. Now as you are saying, let's share the grace, grace of our Lord, describe love of God, communion, fellowship. And you are shocked because our church is separated by a war and they are saying communion, fellowship, contribution, empathy, all of them are lighthouse people. And then you say, OK, we'll use it for now, but we'll change it with time. You don't talk it through. And even that grace is not for you. And the and the and the members, they shall forgive, mercy, mercy, forgive. And they are all sitting there. They don't talk it through. What does it mean you have not thought of it, that you will die? When you die, what will happen to these people? Like this situation in Zurich, these people that churches whatever all over and some of them are said they started said they say they are leading to England relocating to England. So now the people have no church. I understand. So they are scattered. What happens to the people? So now they are all because you poison them. Or when they are leaving, you have to give them a good reason. So you have to say something bad. Let's say Bishop is this. He's this. He's this as the people believes are high. It's a very good reason. Let's go this way. Then they all come. When they come, then you are. That's OK. You know I have to go somewhere. So you leave them. They are there. They can't go here. They can't go. You have not thought what you are doing. You have not thought about it fully. That's what I mean by the uneducated. Sometimes they don't because they they sometimes don't think through certain things. And that's why you may not be that educated, but you can think and it depends. It takes somebody like Otterbell, Dr. Otterbell, he's not an educated man. He's not uneducated. He think through a lot of things. If you watch him, he's thinking all the time. He's the most thinking pastor I've ever seen. It's true, but it's all level. That's as far as we could go. You take the Bishop, Duncan Williams, it's equally not even Class 3. When you ask him, he says I have no classmates. But you can think through even though you haven't been to a level. That's what we are saying, but some people refuse to think think it through. That's what Gordon Brown told that your policies are not. You will discover that they are not well thought through. I noticed it far I just thought of. I said wow.