1975 Kathryn kuhlman Sermon to the Pentecostal Charismatic Church 8/24/75

Hi, today's podcast is actually going to be a sermon that was recorded at the Stambaugh Auditorium in Youngstown, Ohio in August of 1975. We actually have two services right now. The other one was recorded on the week before this. It was August 17th of... 1975. This one here, she's talking to the charismatic Pentecostal church, which is in the middle of the charismatic movement, and talking about some of the problems that she's seeing. And she also comes from Hannah's song out of 1 Samuel. It's really good. It's a little long. The sound is a little rough because it was recorded. from the floor of the auditorium. I'm not sure if it was a soundboard tape. But anyway, from minute 49 to about 51, it's a little difficult to hear. God bless you, and here's Catherine. You know, I was thinking this morning, I was looking to know what it must have been about. 2, 2 .30 that morning. Reading a word. And I thought, you know, all of the years. And you people, we've known each other how many years? Oh, how many years? Well, don't anybody call it out, whatever you do. Goal. back to the Frank and Pennsylvania days. Some of you can go back further than that. How many, many years we've been together, we rejoiced together, we cried together, and we just moved in together. All of these years, we have not changed one bit in our theology. I was just thinking that. Going back to where I first started out in Idaho, all I knew then, of course, was just salvation. Salvation is still the most important thing in this ministry. Know that. Salvation, the new birth experience, it has only been the news media that has made this ministry. of divine healing. Whenever you think of this ministry, you think of it as divine healing. But divine healing is not the most important part of this ministry. It's just as it was when it started out, the new birth experience. Just as those Idaho farmers were born again. It's that same message of salvation that was preached the last time in the First Presbyterian Church Friday, and they were still coming for salvation. Has never changed one iota. Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. That is still our message. Has always been and will continue to be. When it has come to the person of the Holy Spirit, we've all grown together. This wonderful, glorious power of the mighty third person of Trinity. And we have, we have grown together. And remember something, you always had this theology straight. If you get it from the word of God and it's spiritually revealed. by god himself we've never changed we've only gone deeper in the things the spirit when it had come to bible prophecy we've never had to apologize we've never stood up before you and ever have told you that way back there from those franklin days when we first began on the word of prophecy that we were wrong and some of the prophetic messages were brought. And I'll tell you why we have never changed, why we've never had to apologize. It's because it has been built on the very word of God. And it's just like that. We come now and remember we first started out in preaching the... person of the holy spirit when we first gave those messages on the baptism of the holy spirit it was long before the great movement this great charismatic movement do you know that there was that the word charismatic was not used when we were preaching those early sermons in franklin do you people know that way back there In those services, do you realize that back in those early days of Carnegie School in Northside, do you know as we used to have those, what was it, Monday night, Tuesday night services, and we were preaching on the Holy Spirit, that that word charismatic was never used? That there was no charismatic movement? If I keep on talking, I'll feel like a thousand years old. But how many realize what I'm saying is true? Put it by hand. If you realize that, then you realize how quickly everything is changing. And yet we've grown together when it has come to the person, the power of the Holy Ghost. Now that which is upon us and is thrilling and is marvelous is the great moving of the Holy Spirit. and thousands both productives and catechists alike are receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This was not true during those days in Carnegie Auditorium on our side. Perhaps it was having its beginning then. Do you know how quickly all of this had come upon us and now around the world? This great outpouring of the Holy Spirit with thousands being baptized with the Holy Ghost. Thousands being filled with the Holy Spirit is pouring out of the Spirit upon all flesh. But I want you to know something, that our teaching is the same this hour as it was back there. I believe in the speaking in an unknown tongue if the Holy Ghost does the speaking. But the Holy Spirit does not do the speaking. Then, beloved, I want no parts of it. I want to go on record. I want to go on record. And the reason I want to say that is because... I received the most important telephone call this week. And sometimes I think I do not speak out as I should on some of these things. I need to. I take for granted, of course, that you understand these things. I want to go on record. We have got to do it. Because wherever you see the genuine, you always find the counterfeit. How many know that to be the truth? What am I am? I don't care what it is. And we're having an awful lot of counterfeit these days. The word is loaded with counterfeit. How many know that's the truth? Two by the hand. Now, everybody who's talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit has not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Everybody who's professing to be filled with the Holy Spirit is not filled with the Holy Spirit. I believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I have to. It's the Word of God. I've been teaching it to you, Lois, many years. My theology has not changed. I have to believe it. It's the Word of God. I believe that after one wonderful Lois conversion, there is still a beautiful experience. He is with you. And I believe that even before one's been born again, It is the Holy Spirit who convicts the individual of sin. I do not believe that any man or any woman comes to the Lord without the Holy Spirit convicting that one and showing him his own need of Christ the Savior. That's the Holy Spirit who does it. I believe that the Holy Spirit is with every Christian. Did you get it? Just as I said, the Holy Spirit is with every born -again man or woman. But there is an experience where he is not only with you, but he is in you. When out of one's innermost being there fold his glorious rivers of living water. I'm going to be very practical with you this morning. BUT ONE IS NOT TAUGHT HOW TO RECEIVE THIS EXPERIENCE. WHEN SOMEBODY COMES ALONG AND WANTS TO TEACH YOU HOW TO RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST, MY FRIEND, WALK AWAY FROM THEM. IF YOU ARE TOLD TO COME OVER TO THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSE OR GO TO A PRAYER MEETING AND THEY 'LL TEACH YOU HOW TO RECEIVE THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, MY FRIEND, THAT IS NOT SCRIPTURE. You are not taught how to speak in an unknown tongue. That's the most sacrilegious thing I know anything about when I say the mouthful. I'm saying something. You do not teach someone how to speak in an unknown tongue. If you are taught how to speak, then, my friend, you did the speaking and not by Holy Spirit. How many understand? Put up a hand. Men behind me, do you understand? If someone tries to teach you how to speak in tongues, then you are the one who's doing the speaking. The Holy Spirit. is not speaking. I think maybe I should have brought you some of these things a long time ago. Don't be deceived whatever you do. This is the hour of great emotion. Oh, beloved, I know it's a thrilling hour. It's the church's greatest hour. But it's very easy to be carried away with our emotions. It's so easy to be misled. I do believe in the speaking in the unknown tongue. I have to. It's scripture. It is absolutely scripture. When the Holy Spirit does, it's the most beautiful experience. I believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I have to. It's scripture. And thousands are being filled with the Holy Spirit. But I also believe something else. And this is my firm belief. I believe that when it's the Holy Spirit, there will be a reverence. We've gotten to the place, beloved, where we are the most irreverent. generation when it comes to spiritual things that has ever existed. The lack of holiness, the lack of reverence, it's a pause. We have forgotten or else we have never known. how to worship God. There's something about the Holy Spirit. I don't have to come to his defense. He doesn't need me to come to his defense. In those early days, I remember how I used to come to defense of Jesus. Oh, it was a lack of knowledge on my part. I was young and inexperienced, 16, 17 years of age. If you said one thing about Jesus, I could knock you cold. I was out defending Jesus. And it was the greatest thing that ever happened to me when I found out that he didn't need me to defend him. I was just killing myself trying to defend him. You know? I'm not standing up. I don't have to defend the Holy Spirit before the world. I don't have to. He need no defense. For the Holy Spirit is the greatest power there is in the world today. But when it's someone that you love, someone that is so precious to you, I could never tell anyone my feeling towards the Holy Spirit. my feeling regarding this mighty third person, the Trinity. Whenever I even speak of the Holy Spirit, there's a reverence about it. Holy Spirit. We become too familiar with things that are sacred. too familiar. We just about things that are holy. There are spiritual experiences that each of us have that we wouldn't tell anyone else or even the world because they're holy and they're priceless. There's something about it. God is a holy God. We speak his name so lightly. But when the very angels hold their wings and cry, holy, holy. Jesus. of the great high priest, the one who will live with you and intercede for you and for me. Even to speak the name of Jesus. And sometimes there are those who have so lost sight of it that they're not speaking his name. as much as they should. They're putting emphasis on something else. Nothing ever takes the place of Jesus. Remember that. Nothing. Thou art as a Christ, the Son of the living God. And his church, as I told you last Sunday, The bride of Christ, the church of God, this living, vital church is built on your testimony and my testimony. Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. AND WHEN YOU AND I HAVE COME TO THE PLACE IN OUR PROFESSION WHERE WE ARE NO LONGER MAGNIFYING JESUS, THE CHRIST OF THE LIVING GOD, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH OUR EXPERIENCE. THE HOLY SPIRIT DOESN'T TAKE THE PLACE OF JESUS. THAT'S THE REASON THE HOLY SPIRIT MAGNIFIES JESUS. the person the Holy Spirit doubts and takes the place of some visible, audible experience. Know that. And the greater the presence of the Holy Ghost as he moves upon an audience, There's something that's sacred, for he is likened in the Word of God as a dove. So gentle, easily grieved. And we're all, for we're in the presence of a Holy One. There's something special about the Holy Spirit. or he never would have been given the name holy. And everything that is in conjunction with the Holy Spirit, his works, his movements, his actions, his very presence is holy. I wish... that I was sure that you'd understand what I'm trying to say. Oh, of course there's a great ecstasy. I would not say that there was not. There's great ecstasy. But, beloved, there's more. That is great joy. But there's more. Of course there's emotion. But there's more. And this glorious experience of being pure of the Holy Spirit is something more than just a few minutes of ecstasy. It's something more than speaking in an unknown tongue. It's something more than emotionalism. That's the reason I'm sorry when I say to you that wherever you find that one has been filled with the Holy Spirit, has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, there's a price that has been paid. It isn't something that you teach one and you would teach one. How to play a game. How to play the piano. How to read notes. I want to read something that's very precious. It's Hannah's prayer. 1 Samuel, the second chapter. And Hannah prayed and said, My heart rejoices in the Lord. Oh, that though night, every word of Hannah's prayer is so huge. My heart rejoices in the Lord. My horn is exalted in the Lord. My mouth is enlarged over mine enemies. Mine enemies are there. They'll always be there. Satan will always be there. But Hannah is saying, greater is he that is within me than he that is in the world. Greater is he that is within me than the enemies of my soul. She did not overlook the fact that there were enemies. She saw the other side of it, and yet, in spite of it, she begins by saying, My heart rejoiceth in the Lord. Mine horn is exalted in the Lord. My mouth is enlarged over mine enemy, because I rejoice in thy salvation. There is none as holy as the Lord, for there is none beside thee, neither is there any rock like our God. I just love that. Neither is there any rock like our God. He's weighed the whole thing. There is none beside thee. Neither is there any rock like our God. Talk no more so exceeding proudly. Let not arrogance come out of your mouth. Listen, never forget as I repeat this. Watch out for arrogance. Oh, the arrogant spirit is so prevalent these days in spiritual circles. Arrogant. Pride. Be careful, be careful. These were the things that caused the most beautiful angel that God ever created to be turned into Satan. These very things are the things that caused one of the most beautiful and powerful angels that God ever created to be turned into the one who is Satan, who is the devil today. Talk no more so exceeding proudly. I breathe deep the back of the Holy Spirit. I have received gifts of the Spirit. I have been given the word of prophecy. I have been given the gift of the healing of the body. When you heal when speaking of these things in a spirit that is contrary, to the beautiful humility of the Holy Spirit, then, beloved, it's the wrong spirit. Humility is the greatest of all Christian graces. Talk no more so exceeding proudly. Let not arrogance come out of your mouths. For the Lord... is a God of knowledge. Always remember that. Our God is a God of knowledge. He knoweth all things. He's the God of knowledge. Sometimes, you know, we wonder if He really knows. If he really knows, he's a God of knowledge, of perfect knowledge. He knows you, he knows me better than we know ourselves. He knows my heart, he knows your heart, he knows your motive. No man fools God. No person fools God. He is perfect in his knowledge, in his knowledge of all things. And by him actions are weighed. By him. The world can judge. You may give your opinion. You may give your analysis. But this is beautiful. And by him. actions are weighed. The bows of the mighty men are broken, and they that stumble are girded with strength. They that were cruel have hired out themselves for bread, and they that were hungry ceased, so that the barren half -born seven and she that hath many children is waxed feeble. But here is something that almost looks like a contradiction. Remember, this is Hannah's prayer. And this is something that I'm wondering whether we've lost sight of in our great charismatic movement. I'm just wondering. I'm just thinking aloud to you. You're my people. I thought about this over and over again because I see so little of it. I believe so completely in this great movement of the Holy Spirit. I believe in it so completely because it's the fulfillment of the Bible prophecy. From the last days I will pour out of my spirit upon all flesh. I believe in it, and He's doing that very thing. But I want also that we be not deceived. In this hour of great emotionalism, in this the church's greatest hour, we can so be deceived and so carried away. Still them anymore. In the great charismatic looming, do we ever hear much about the death of self? But there's an awful lot of spiritual pride. And I said, Tubby, maybe right now I should say, let us pray. Oh, the ecstasy, that's thrilling. The jubilation does glow with. You know? Cutting the wedding cake, oh, that's wonderful. But after the bridal gown is taken off, the wedding cake has been eaten. And the geth have gone home. Hear Hannah's prayer. The Lord killeth. And we don't hear very much these days about the death to self. I haven't heard a sermon on the death to self for years. They just don't preach it anymore. It isn't popular. It just isn't popular. But I want you to know if it is the genuine baptism of the Holy Spirit, if it isn't, if it is the genuine baptism of the Holy Spirit, if it... is the genuine experience when the Holy Spirit himself comes in until out of your innermost being there pose rivers of living water, there has got to be a killing, a death itself. The Lord... kill it but don't stop there and make us alive to be alive in christ jesus do you know what i'm talking about do you know what i'm trying to say i'm not talking about five minutes i'm not talking about an experience of 10 minutes I'm not talking about one prayer meeting. I'm not talking about a group of people just getting together and having a spiritual picnic. I'm talking about the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit. I'm talking about what Paul meant. Oh, the compassion of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. The fellowship. That's not fellowship. That's not fellowship. That's not what Paul was talking about. These spiritual picnics that you have. That's not what Paul... He is talking about a constant fellowship with the Holy Spirit. The... abiding presence of the Holy Ghost, where two wills have become as one. He's talking about a death to self, a death to self. And when there's a death to self, then, beloved, that pride goes. spiritual pride, there is never a death to self. There's never been a killing. Never. The Lord killeth and maketh alive. He bringeth down to the grave and bringeth up. He bring it down to the grave. Had they ever been down to the grave? Have you? Let me ask you. You don't hear that anymore. You don't hear that anymore. I stood on this same platform over and over and over again and had told you that the cross on which Jesus died was his cross. That was never my cross. When they nailed Jesus to that center cross, when he looked up and dismissed his own spirits, That was his cross. That wasn't mine. That wasn't my cross. That was his, his, his cross. If any man will follow me, let him take up his cross. Jesus was saying the same thing. There's death, there's death, there's death. We talk about everything else, I think, in this great charismatic movement except death. Death. Death. It's something we don't want to talk about. We don't want to talk about the cross. It hurts. It's a price. It's a price. There's no ecstasy in it. It blooms. It hurts. It hurts. Have you gone down to the grave? There's no wire that's to say in that. There's no jubilance that you stand before an open grave. It represents death. But millions today have never died to self. Millions today who are in this great charismatic movement know nothing about going down to the grave. That's the reason there's still this great spiritual pride and this arrogance. All this spirit of arrogance. This lot of glorifying Jesus. This complete lot of reverence. This complete lack of humility. I don't know whether you know what I'm talking about or not. Some will leave this morning not having known. But I'll tell you something. If you've ever had that experience of being killed, You'll know it. And you won't have to wear a button and say, I love you. You don't have to say a word about it. There's something that radiates from your very being. Even the touch of your hand or the look on your face. There's something that comes forth. You don't have to wear a buck to declare yourself. You don't have to say a word. Or you had become alive. Alive! Alive! There's life there. supernatural strengths. There's a supernatural testimony. A lie. If you've gone down to the grave, if you've gone down to the grave, he has brought you up. But there be that death of self. But ye cannot escape. The Lord maketh poor and maketh rich. He bringeth low and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust and lifteth up the beggar from the dun hill. to set them among princes. Let me repeat it. He lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill to set them among princes and to make them inherit the throne of Loret. Who will be the who will inherit the throne of glory? Who are those that beg you from the dunghill to set them among the princes? Whose testimony will influence men and women from every walk of life? Whose testimony in life will get into the hearts of the men and the women? that your dream would never be interested, the most unlikely. The one who has been killed and had been made alive? The one who's gone down to the grave that he had brought up? Mm -hmm. I will make them to inherit the throne of Goli, for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's. Do you feel poor? Don't ever feel poor. The pillars of the earth are the Lord's. Discouraged? The pillars of the earth are the Lord's. And he has set the world upon them. When we say he's God Almighty. the one who spoke the very worlds into existence. No wonder the angels cried, holy, holy. Man needs to reverence him. God Almighty, he hath set the world upon the pillars of the earth. He will keep the feet of his saints. He will keep the feet of his saints. I had an experience that was one of the most beautiful experiences. It shall be a lost thing. Experience will pause my memory's concerns. Madam Sheikh. You may not have seen her in person, but you saw her on our telegram. From Pakistan. That woman who had the... Well, there was never a woman in Pakistan who had greater influence in the government than Madam Sheikh. She's entertained the ambassadors. From every country. When they would come to Pakistan, no woman had greater influence in society than Madame Chaykin. Every inch a woman. But Muslim, as you well know. The woman who would fly to Paris to have her hair dressed. A woman with servants. Scores of service, Madam Shane, would have seen her on our telecast. But the woman to whom Jesus revealed himself, she cannot go back to Pakistan because it would take her life. She has witnessed for Jesus Christ. And she can no longer go back. Remember how she longed and longed. She had no one to teach her salvation. The Holy Spirit was the one who taught her salvation. She saw water baptism in the Bible. No one to teach her. And she filled the bathtub and baptized herself. She was filled with the Holy Spirit. and spoke in an unknown tongue, and no one ever taught her one thing about the Holy Spirit. She had the greatest teacher, the Master himself, and then someone who would beautifully heal. From Pakistan, a doctor's son came to be Shrine of the Toi, a doctor. The sun was healed. Went back to Pakistan and told her the slaying power of the Holy Spirit. She began praying, Lord, send me to America. I too with this more. I shall never forget the first Sunday she was in the shrine of the doyam. The power of the Holy Ghost came upon her. She was slain by the power. Her first time of fellowship with Christians. Up until that moment, though, it is less than a complete revealing to her. A couple of weeks ago, a doctor, who is a doctor, came from Pakistan for just a few days to visit her mother, Madam Shay. She came to my dressing room doors that I'd like to meet you. Oh, such a highly trained, beautifully educated woman. Very famous of the doctor over there, but still a mother. She said, I cannot accept the Christ. It would be too hard for me to go back. I couldn't do it. I said to her, promise me something. You will be born again. Because of your mother's prayers, you will be. And when you are, I want to be that one to lead you to the Lord. I want that privilege. She looked at me and she said, all right, I promise. This is on Sunday. On Monday, I knew that she would soon be leaving for Pakistan, perhaps the last time I'd get to see her. I called and I said, I'd like to pray for your daughter. I'll go anyplace. I want to pray before she goes back. They came to my hotel room, and the daughter was beautifully converted right in the hotel room. Beautifully converted. And Madam Shea, asking her daughter to slip out of the room for just a few minutes, and then she closed the door and did something. I'll never forget it. Marron shape. And your, you, Dick Burton. White. Pakistan. Costume. She's such a lady. Before I knew it, she had slipped to her knees. She was on my feet. in the hotel room in Central Plaza. I looked down and here was a beautiful lady. And her tears were bathing my feet. And she had her hands on both my feet. My feet were wet with the tea. And she was crying hot. the greater prayer I'd never heard pray. And she was praying on my feet. It was holy ground. We were in the presence of a holy God. It wasn't until I read Hannah's prayer that I saw the importance of what Madam Shakey had done. He will keep the feet of his safe. He will keep the feet of his safe. I believe in his pity and his unknown tongue. He knows that I do. I don't care whether they'll turn it out. But, beloved, that is one thing. But what about the keeping of the feet of these saints? that you guide. And if you lead, let there are those that are led of the spirits. If I'm led of the spirit, then it means that I follow. If you're being led, you follow. He will keep the feet of your saints. and the wicked shall be silent in darkness. For by strength shall no man prevail. The adversary to the Lord shall be broken to pieces, and out of heaven shall he thunder upon them. And the Lord shall judge the ends of the earth, and he shall give strength unto his king, the horn of his anointed. That, my friend, is a word, and it needs no defense. I pray that not one who's beneath sensuality's lowest daemon shall leave the same person they were when he landed. Not a man on this stage shall leave the same person he was when he woke on this stage this morning. Not one person out there in that audience within the balcony on the main floor, not a one. Dow Hawks spoke. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word shall not pass so. And we take absolutely everything on the word. And we've never had to apologize for the truth of the word. And we've never had to come to the defense of the word. And we've never had to come to the defense of the Holy Spirit or the Son of God or the Lord himself. Never. Never. You need no defense.